As a destructive meme ‘Jihad’ has nothing on ‘free will’.
This is a world of cause and effect. It’s a living world with living minds, yes, but people are not free from the web of causation so to boil a complex problem down to ‘these people just won’t choose rightly’ is scapegoating and nothing else.
People do not make self-destructive decisions out of some obtuse, ‘free’ caprice, as has now been well documented by neurology. Anything from a blow on the head to a TV programme can transform a personality. So-called ‘choice’ is just a part of this cause-effect process; it doesn’t act from outside cause-effect.
Good for u Russell! That guy reminds me of the angry zombies here in America: angry, always talking, never listening, self righteous. If u talk about love, they want to spit in your face. Thank u for standing up for love, keep doing it, and strength and blessings on u and people who struggle with all types of addiction.
I had to have a little smile at Keith’s suggestion that Peter Hitchens is too intellectual for the mainstream. My bemusement is because that seems to be his (Hitchens’) problem: he has the air of someone who believes themselves to be much cleverer than those with whom he is debating and so dismisses their views without consideration. I have never seen him prepared to enter into a genuine discussion where he is prepared to put his views to the test by being open to the idea that he might be incorrect. To my mind, this is what a genuine intellectual would do: put his ideas into play and genuinely allow them to be tested in discussion. Rather, he is content to state and restate his views in ever more strident tones. In one sense, he shouldn’t be blamed for this; it is, after all, how he makes his living – by entertaining and shocking us with his extreme views. Though, given this, it’s puzzling why he is so patronising to a fellow (and more honest – in this regard at least) entertainer. I also found it interesting that Peter Hitchens accuses Russell Brand of making ad hominen attacks and of interrupting him but seems oblivious to the fact that he does both of these things himself throughout.
First Collector: At this festive time of year, Mr. Scrooge, it is more than usually desirable that we should make some slight provision for the poor and destitute.
Ebenezer: Are there no prisons?
First Collector: Plenty of prisons.
Ebenezer: And the union workhouses – are they still in operation?
First Collector: They are. I wish I could say they were not.
Ebenezer: Oh, from what you said at first I was afraid that something had happened to stop them in their useful course. I’m very glad to hear it.
First Collector: I don’t think you quite understand us, sir. A few of us are endeavoring to buy the poor some meat and drink, and means of warmth.
Ebenezer: Why?
First Collector: Because it is at Christmastime that want is most keenly felt, and abundance rejoices. Now what can I put you down for?
Ebenezer: Huh! Nothing!
Second Collector: You wish to be anonymous?
Ebenezer: [firmly, but calmly] I wish to be left alone. Since you ask me what I wish sir, that is my answer. I help to support the establishments I have named; those who are badly off must go there.
First Collector: Many can’t go there.
Second Collector: And some would rather die.
Well done mr B! You handled yourself well.where does that man come from??lets hope he never has to experience any of his children getting an addiction,if he did im sure he would be knocking on chips door not a prison cell.the best expert in any situation is someone whos lived it,if his not gonna listen to you ans take your views on bord what hope is there.i only wish you had stood up and given him a kiss on the lips lol appart from being well jel i would have pmsl! Keep up the good work! Xxxxx
If you all seriously think Hitchen’s is in the wrong here you all must be deluded. Hitchen’s came on trying to discuss a point and in turn all Brand could do was be childish and act like a fool. Take calling Hitchen’s a homophobe. I find it absurd that some on here accuse Hitchen’s of insulting Brand, when it is evident that Brand was the perpetrator. Accusing people of bigotry with no evidence is disgusting, and Brand should hang his head in shame.
Personally I think drug users need more support, but there is truth in what Hitchen’s says, and I think Brand is both incapable and the wrong person to be the ambassador of helping these people.
Putting aside the abserdity of peter hitchens (a man so confused, twisted and full of hate I actually feel sorry for), I’d like to pull you up on your new political stance on drug policy, specifically your pro-abstinance only approach.
I’m a drug user (everything – heroin/opiates my drug of choice) – and I live a happy, forfilled and productive life. I’m in treatment (subutex – im sure you know it), as I decided I needed to get away from the criminal underground I was forced to interact with in order to source my drugs, and to give me a reliable supply.
I work (im in the 40% tax band, so am by no description leeching of the state) and am willing to pay for my own drugs (and if they were taxed, the harmful effects of my habit to society). You have no right to tell me to not use, or that my supply should be limited, before I get sent to a residential course. (I do however belive that users should be in touch with mental health professionals – as I am). You needed focus12 – it saved your life, and you’re probably right; you would be dead without it.
However, I don’t want to stop using. Prehaps you should stop talking for all drug users – we are not all like you.
——————–
ps – This is not to discorage you or take away from the benefit to society you give by bringing this discussion up. I will say however – there is another option. We regulate drugs properly, so no more methadone (i agree with you there, horrible drug), but proper herion for users, free to those who cant pay, paid for by those who can (remember its very cheap to make). That, combined with access to personal development & psycotherpy & residential detox (again this could be paid for by a tax on the drug) – and bi-yearly checkups (think a drugs driving license).
We need all three, and you could benefit society greatly by increasing access to residential care, however taking away a safe secure supply from users will also hurt them, and reduce the amount of addicts we can treat.
Please think this through (get in touch if you need to) – and make it clear that some of us don’t want residential rehab, some of us want to use without causing harm to society – we actually want to pay for the privalige & to support our friends who fall into addiction & abuse by funding via taxes. (And to take the profits away from criminals & to ban underage use etc…)
I have seen a lot of the carnage addiction can cause, be it death from O.D, familys torn apart, dealer wars, the full nine yards. Addiction to a substance be it opiates, alcohol or prescribed medication is all the same problem. I believe this is has always been a problem in our society and I applaud russell using his strange charm to champion a solution for the addict willing and able to free themselves. As for that rupert peter he needs to join the 21st centuary or I suspect he might have got on well with Adolf, it frightens me to think he is not the only one. love, compassion, understanding, all the nice things about us humans is needed, although I wont hold my breath. Abstinence and a hard look at behavior can help. Dont ask me, I know nothjng except staying human
It is such a shame that there are people like Peter who feel that addiction is not a disease, or illness. Apparently he has never had an alcoholic or drug addict in his family or a friend. Because if he had and he had done the research he would know that what Russell Brand and the other two gentlemen were saying is the truth. No one WANTS to be an addict or alcoholic, no one wants to lose their dignity, money, family, freedom and in so many cases their life. It is an illness! And the only cure is abstinence. And, I believe attending 12 step meetings, and God. I am clean and sober today because I went to treatment many times, I attended the meetings and I prayed. But until I was really ready to surrender in my heart and soul I could not stay clean. The treatment worked, the meetings worked, and most of all the prayers worked. God has taken away the cravings I once had for drugs. It is a “one day at a time” situation, but it does work! Shame on you Peter for thinking throwing people in jail is the answer!
I cant understand the insanity of that dude, peter whats his name… who is he?
its great to see Russel standing up, being honest, becoming a part of the greater awareness and change that is needed for us unfortunates that have been trapped in the cycle of substance abuse and addiction…. the system in many, well most countries to deal with this issue is narrow minded, unhelpfull and rude….. but i do believe that with the help of people such as Russel that are well known and are not ashamed and hide there problems because of societys view on the people who, yeah i would call it an illness, suffer from addictions, stand up and open awareness to what it really is….
im a substance abuser and an addict, im not a bad a person but a person who has an illness….. i wouldnt say i have beaten it yet but i have made giant steps in the right direction…….
go hard and get what needs to be changed Russel….. peace :)
Russel, you are brilliant! Keep shining you sauced little sex kitten you. Your message is profound in these troubled times on the planet. Those who are ignorant and have their ears and eyes closed are not willing or ready to listen. However, there are many that will benefit from the level of consciousness you bring.
Do not let your preconceived ideas and belief systems get in the way Mr. Hitchens. Place all judgements aside for one moment. If you took the time to see beyond the mask of Russel, and get out of your own way, you may in fact be able to glean some very valuable information from Mr. Brand. I do mean this in the most polite way.
yeah i got you, but you said Based on these observations of eicerxenpe, there cannot possibly be such a thing as God or gods, oh i guess you write, i must have misread it, but i do think there is a god, or gods, but i don’t believe any religion has it write, i mean there just books, anybody could have wrote them, and yeah there may have been things that came true that were said in the bible, but it doesn’t necessarily mean god gave that wisdom to people, and then they wrote it down
Russell I am watching your programme From Addiction to Recovery. Thank God for it and for you speaking out about this. Lets have proper understanding and compassion. Lets stop putting patches over addiction and accept it for what it is and lets face down the fear that people like Peter H and that lady GP have – something to do with not being able to fix or control it perhaps? Yes lets have a proper debate. Yes lets get real about this stuff. Why is there so much fear about having a debate. My beautiful husband died a few months ago aged 44 from alcoholism after years of apparently good recovery. To anyone with half a brain this is a disease. A truly terrifying disease if unchecked. I really want to get on a very large soapbox about it and I’m so grateful that you have got on yours ! Thank you.
What I find so fascinating is that the facts actually don’t support the Peter Hitchen “hang ‘em, flog ‘em and shoot ‘em” mentality even slightly. It is mathematically proven in studies from all around the world that there is, in terms of cost to the justice system alone, a 300% return at minimum on intervention programs. That doesn’t even count the house that doesn’t get robbed, the Granny who doesn’t get mugged or the teenager who sells drugs to his friends to fund his own habit.
To the likes of Peter Hitchen I say if you can’t understand empathy, compassion and humanity at least understand the basic maths.
As a destructive meme ‘Jihad’ has nothing on ‘free will’.
This is a world of cause and effect. It’s a living world with living minds, yes, but people are not free from the web of causation so to boil a complex problem down to ‘these people just won’t choose rightly’ is scapegoating and nothing else.
People do not make self-destructive decisions out of some obtuse, ‘free’ caprice, as has now been well documented by neurology. Anything from a blow on the head to a TV programme can transform a personality. So-called ‘choice’ is just a part of this cause-effect process; it doesn’t act from outside cause-effect.
See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phineas_Gage
Good for u Russell! That guy reminds me of the angry zombies here in America: angry, always talking, never listening, self righteous. If u talk about love, they want to spit in your face. Thank u for standing up for love, keep doing it, and strength and blessings on u and people who struggle with all types of addiction.
I had to have a little smile at Keith’s suggestion that Peter Hitchens is too intellectual for the mainstream. My bemusement is because that seems to be his (Hitchens’) problem: he has the air of someone who believes themselves to be much cleverer than those with whom he is debating and so dismisses their views without consideration. I have never seen him prepared to enter into a genuine discussion where he is prepared to put his views to the test by being open to the idea that he might be incorrect. To my mind, this is what a genuine intellectual would do: put his ideas into play and genuinely allow them to be tested in discussion. Rather, he is content to state and restate his views in ever more strident tones. In one sense, he shouldn’t be blamed for this; it is, after all, how he makes his living – by entertaining and shocking us with his extreme views. Though, given this, it’s puzzling why he is so patronising to a fellow (and more honest – in this regard at least) entertainer. I also found it interesting that Peter Hitchens accuses Russell Brand of making ad hominen attacks and of interrupting him but seems oblivious to the fact that he does both of these things himself throughout.
Hitchens reminded me of Ebenezer Scrooge.
First Collector: At this festive time of year, Mr. Scrooge, it is more than usually desirable that we should make some slight provision for the poor and destitute.
Ebenezer: Are there no prisons?
First Collector: Plenty of prisons.
Ebenezer: And the union workhouses – are they still in operation?
First Collector: They are. I wish I could say they were not.
Ebenezer: Oh, from what you said at first I was afraid that something had happened to stop them in their useful course. I’m very glad to hear it.
First Collector: I don’t think you quite understand us, sir. A few of us are endeavoring to buy the poor some meat and drink, and means of warmth.
Ebenezer: Why?
First Collector: Because it is at Christmastime that want is most keenly felt, and abundance rejoices. Now what can I put you down for?
Ebenezer: Huh! Nothing!
Second Collector: You wish to be anonymous?
Ebenezer: [firmly, but calmly] I wish to be left alone. Since you ask me what I wish sir, that is my answer. I help to support the establishments I have named; those who are badly off must go there.
First Collector: Many can’t go there.
Second Collector: And some would rather die.
Well done mr B! You handled yourself well.where does that man come from??lets hope he never has to experience any of his children getting an addiction,if he did im sure he would be knocking on chips door not a prison cell.the best expert in any situation is someone whos lived it,if his not gonna listen to you ans take your views on bord what hope is there.i only wish you had stood up and given him a kiss on the lips lol appart from being well jel i would have pmsl! Keep up the good work! Xxxxx
is this ‘Newsnight’ or ‘Peter Hitchens’ christ the guy doesnt shut up!
If you all seriously think Hitchen’s is in the wrong here you all must be deluded. Hitchen’s came on trying to discuss a point and in turn all Brand could do was be childish and act like a fool. Take calling Hitchen’s a homophobe. I find it absurd that some on here accuse Hitchen’s of insulting Brand, when it is evident that Brand was the perpetrator. Accusing people of bigotry with no evidence is disgusting, and Brand should hang his head in shame.
Personally I think drug users need more support, but there is truth in what Hitchen’s says, and I think Brand is both incapable and the wrong person to be the ambassador of helping these people.
Putting aside the abserdity of peter hitchens (a man so confused, twisted and full of hate I actually feel sorry for), I’d like to pull you up on your new political stance on drug policy, specifically your pro-abstinance only approach.
I’m a drug user (everything – heroin/opiates my drug of choice) – and I live a happy, forfilled and productive life. I’m in treatment (subutex – im sure you know it), as I decided I needed to get away from the criminal underground I was forced to interact with in order to source my drugs, and to give me a reliable supply.
I work (im in the 40% tax band, so am by no description leeching of the state) and am willing to pay for my own drugs (and if they were taxed, the harmful effects of my habit to society). You have no right to tell me to not use, or that my supply should be limited, before I get sent to a residential course. (I do however belive that users should be in touch with mental health professionals – as I am). You needed focus12 – it saved your life, and you’re probably right; you would be dead without it.
However, I don’t want to stop using. Prehaps you should stop talking for all drug users – we are not all like you.
——————–
ps – This is not to discorage you or take away from the benefit to society you give by bringing this discussion up. I will say however – there is another option. We regulate drugs properly, so no more methadone (i agree with you there, horrible drug), but proper herion for users, free to those who cant pay, paid for by those who can (remember its very cheap to make). That, combined with access to personal development & psycotherpy & residential detox (again this could be paid for by a tax on the drug) – and bi-yearly checkups (think a drugs driving license).
We need all three, and you could benefit society greatly by increasing access to residential care, however taking away a safe secure supply from users will also hurt them, and reduce the amount of addicts we can treat.
Please think this through (get in touch if you need to) – and make it clear that some of us don’t want residential rehab, some of us want to use without causing harm to society – we actually want to pay for the privalige & to support our friends who fall into addiction & abuse by funding via taxes. (And to take the profits away from criminals & to ban underage use etc…)
A concerned citizen.
I have seen a lot of the carnage addiction can cause, be it death from O.D, familys torn apart, dealer wars, the full nine yards. Addiction to a substance be it opiates, alcohol or prescribed medication is all the same problem. I believe this is has always been a problem in our society and I applaud russell using his strange charm to champion a solution for the addict willing and able to free themselves. As for that rupert peter he needs to join the 21st centuary or I suspect he might have got on well with Adolf, it frightens me to think he is not the only one. love, compassion, understanding, all the nice things about us humans is needed, although I wont hold my breath. Abstinence and a hard look at behavior can help. Dont ask me, I know nothjng except staying human
It is such a shame that there are people like Peter who feel that addiction is not a disease, or illness. Apparently he has never had an alcoholic or drug addict in his family or a friend. Because if he had and he had done the research he would know that what Russell Brand and the other two gentlemen were saying is the truth. No one WANTS to be an addict or alcoholic, no one wants to lose their dignity, money, family, freedom and in so many cases their life. It is an illness! And the only cure is abstinence. And, I believe attending 12 step meetings, and God. I am clean and sober today because I went to treatment many times, I attended the meetings and I prayed. But until I was really ready to surrender in my heart and soul I could not stay clean. The treatment worked, the meetings worked, and most of all the prayers worked. God has taken away the cravings I once had for drugs. It is a “one day at a time” situation, but it does work! Shame on you Peter for thinking throwing people in jail is the answer!
I cant understand the insanity of that dude, peter whats his name… who is he?
its great to see Russel standing up, being honest, becoming a part of the greater awareness and change that is needed for us unfortunates that have been trapped in the cycle of substance abuse and addiction…. the system in many, well most countries to deal with this issue is narrow minded, unhelpfull and rude….. but i do believe that with the help of people such as Russel that are well known and are not ashamed and hide there problems because of societys view on the people who, yeah i would call it an illness, suffer from addictions, stand up and open awareness to what it really is….
im a substance abuser and an addict, im not a bad a person but a person who has an illness….. i wouldnt say i have beaten it yet but i have made giant steps in the right direction…….
go hard and get what needs to be changed Russel….. peace :)
Russel, you are brilliant! Keep shining you sauced little sex kitten you. Your message is profound in these troubled times on the planet. Those who are ignorant and have their ears and eyes closed are not willing or ready to listen. However, there are many that will benefit from the level of consciousness you bring.
Do not let your preconceived ideas and belief systems get in the way Mr. Hitchens. Place all judgements aside for one moment. If you took the time to see beyond the mask of Russel, and get out of your own way, you may in fact be able to glean some very valuable information from Mr. Brand. I do mean this in the most polite way.
Keep doing what you do my friend. Light and Love
yeah i got you, but you said Based on these observations of eicerxenpe, there cannot possibly be such a thing as God or gods, oh i guess you write, i must have misread it, but i do think there is a god, or gods, but i don’t believe any religion has it write, i mean there just books, anybody could have wrote them, and yeah there may have been things that came true that were said in the bible, but it doesn’t necessarily mean god gave that wisdom to people, and then they wrote it down
Russell I am watching your programme From Addiction to Recovery. Thank God for it and for you speaking out about this. Lets have proper understanding and compassion. Lets stop putting patches over addiction and accept it for what it is and lets face down the fear that people like Peter H and that lady GP have – something to do with not being able to fix or control it perhaps? Yes lets have a proper debate. Yes lets get real about this stuff. Why is there so much fear about having a debate. My beautiful husband died a few months ago aged 44 from alcoholism after years of apparently good recovery. To anyone with half a brain this is a disease. A truly terrifying disease if unchecked. I really want to get on a very large soapbox about it and I’m so grateful that you have got on yours ! Thank you.
What I find so fascinating is that the facts actually don’t support the Peter Hitchen “hang ‘em, flog ‘em and shoot ‘em” mentality even slightly. It is mathematically proven in studies from all around the world that there is, in terms of cost to the justice system alone, a 300% return at minimum on intervention programs. That doesn’t even count the house that doesn’t get robbed, the Granny who doesn’t get mugged or the teenager who sells drugs to his friends to fund his own habit.
To the likes of Peter Hitchen I say if you can’t understand empathy, compassion and humanity at least understand the basic maths.